Cavities inside keel and around bilge areas.

[Greg]

Last weeks storms in Sydney managed to blow out the top section of my cabin door and the 563 took on enough water to fill the bilge on both sides of the centerboard case. A few strange things are going on and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on it.

On one side of the bilge it looks like (from the way the fiberglass edge hangs over) a long gap was left during the manufacturing process. Is there any reason why this would have been left this way and can i fill it up as it is lower than the lowest point of the pump tube and needs to be carefully towelled out to dry it?

Long gap left during manufacturing

On the other side there isn't a gap but as the water is drained out water is seeping very slowly back into the low point of the bilge and filling it to about a centimeter before stopping (pictured with a red arrow). There is obviously a cavity that has soaked up water and breaths it back out when the water is drained so i will need to cut open the fiberglass to dry it out and fill it - where would the best place to start cutting be without messing with the structural integrity of the boat?

Water seeps in

Also is there supposed to be a hole that joins the two sections together so water can flow from one side to the other? Seems like there should be but i cant find one? Hopefully there is one there thats blocked, the manual pump has had its day and i'd like to replace it with an electric pump, if the water can't flow around it will become a pain to empty.

Is there a cross section picture available of how these keels were put together?

[Ozzie]

Annoyingly Greg there are no holes joining the various low points, not in mine anyway. I have always been going to drill one from the compartments either side of the keel to the rear one , where my electric pump is placed, just loose . But I've bought a manual pump that I've yet to install and I may leave the drawing end flexible so it can be relocated in any compartment. In fact in a swamping or leak by the time you have the water down to that level it's not going to matter much to get home and maybe that was the reasoning in the construction method.

As for your other holes, yeah it does look like a construction fault. I think drying it all out and filling is probably all you can do. Curious if others have had similar faults. Good luck.

Be cautious if cutting . It has been suggested that asbestos filler was widely used as a bulking agent in the resin in yacht construction at the time . Keep it all well damped down and wear a mask.

[atles]

HI Greg

no their is not a drain hole in mind remember to check your lockers as water sitting in them seeps
down the back floor of the boat and in to that lowest point you keep talking about .
and no both side of the bilge do not join
the reason for this i think is each side tell you were it draining from for small amount of water
the back or the other it coming from the front.
as for the crack fill it in
i would say some one had a look at what was under there .
do you still have the steel bolt showing for the center plate .

[Ozzie]

Greg, it would be interesting to see if you have concrete down in those holes , have you tried looking down in them with a torch? maybe stick a drill bit down and take a small sample.

[Greg]

I got around to finding whats going on inside my keel sections today.

Started by drilling a hole into where I thought there might be a cavity storing water - boy oh boy i was wrong. The fiberglass over the section is paper thin, i realised the drill bit would go right through it like butter without even turning on the drill. What is underneath could only be explained as brown mush, it could have been anything wood or concrete or both at one point or another (my picture doesn't do it justice). Either way looks like ive found my next job to do on the boat, cleaning out this muck and filling in the cavity's left and glassing over!

After looking at how this was put together i'd recommend everyone test how thick the fiberglass is over this section in your boats so you don't get the same issue. Hopefully mine is the only one with inadequate fiberglass lining the bilge and this was an oversight in the manufacturing process.

[Ozzie]

Mate. This is most interesting if not a bit alarming for you. Possibly, and this is a total guess, there may be some sacrificial timber formwork placed over the concrete filling in the sides of the keel to place the glass over. Maybe the apprentice did this thin bit while the boss was not looking. If you can remove the thin layer cleanly try blasting with a pressure cleaner to get all the timber pulp/loose concrete out and then maybe you can get a better perspective on what's going on .

I think after all the dribs of info we have over the years that the keel comes out of the mold hollow. Then, the centerboard frames are glassed in, the fore and aft lead ingots are lowered in on opposite ends of the cb case. Next the voids are filled with concrete and possibly some thin sacrificial timber placed over the top of the finished concrete and that's glassed over to form the visible bilge floor. I worked out earlier in the original forum that concrete alone was not heavy enough to provide the stated ballast weight , hence the lead. Finally the airtight compartments and cabin floor are glassed in.

You are a pioneer here as nobody has gone so deeply into the 563 anatomy before . Keep it moist in case of asbestos in the filler. Lots of pics pls.

[sheepstations]

Hi All, I've been trying to follow this post but need a bit of help. Using Greg's photo, you can see the deepest part of the bilge is a small cavity about 10x5cm that is marked by the red arrow.
I have one on each side of the centreplate case that seem to be permanently wet. Does anybody know the purpose of these 2 small cavities? I've tried to clean them out as best I can but access is not very easy.
Thanks, JR

IMG_3002.JPG (25.83 KiB) Viewed 4676 times

[Greg]

I don’t think the cavity’s are there for any reason other than to have some wriggle room when they lowered in the lead ingots.

I ended up painstakingly cleaning all the muck I possibly could out of there and let it dry right out. I then sealed it all up by cutting strips of plastic to shape and siliconing it into place. I felt this would be a better idea than glassing it all up just in case a repair to the keel needs to be done in (many) years to come. More info here:

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https://www.facebook.com/lawanddisorder563/photos/a.132088690466014/132088700466013/?type=3  

[Ozzie]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=326&p=5877&hilit=Surfies#p5877

I think Sheepstations the answer is in the above thread. These boats though well designed and for the most part professionally built were worked on in many locations by persons of different familiarity with the construction protocols. We’ve never attempted to do so but investigations might show that boats built in one location may have had more care put into the keel setup than others. It certainly seems this is where the most variations in quality control (for want of a better term) occurs.

I don’t think this is A real problem but bilge water that’s difficult to remove, well it’s annoying for those of us who like to keep our vessels in top shape. In Spritzig II when I examined inside the keel case there is a small stainless sheave glassed in where the keel pull rope is supposed to turn. This however was badly fitted and has been immobilised by the resin it was set in.It doesn’t stop it from working but it obviously puts more friction in the system as the pull rope just drags over it. Better than raw glass but not operating correctly.

[sheepstations]

Thanks for the input. I saw on your FB post Greg you installed bilge pumps over where these cavities are. Makes sense to have a 'well' underneath the pumps where water can find a low point.
I've gone into the bilge area behind the step (below the cockpit), cut away some dodgy fibreglass covering the keel to reveal the gap I think you have mentioned. This cavity is half full of water.
Is there an obvious source where water could be seeping into the keel cavity? To dry it out, I suspect I might have to drill an external hole at the bottom of the keel, let it drain and dry and then repair.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
JR