Here is a pic of the underside of Toroeisi taken some years ago, and you can see the large clearance on the side of the casing. Of course, the c/b does need to be in contact with the case to stop it rattling, but that only needs to be in the area of the cheek discs, and friction there should not stop the board from dropping, as the weight of the board has a long lever arm.
Swinging, swinging keel
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Peter- how is your keel (centre board) going? I am not so sure about the mud being the problem. The c/b should only be rubbing on the two cheek plates, and there should be a reasonable clearance to the sides of the casing itself. On Yara, with a light aluminium c/b, it drops easily, and moves with virtually no friction. Have you had a look up from under the boat?
Here is a pic of the underside of Toroeisi taken some years ago, and you can see the large clearance on the side of the casing. Of course, the c/b does need to be in contact with the case to stop it rattling, but that only needs to be in the area of the cheek discs, and friction there should not stop the board from dropping, as the weight of the board has a long lever arm.
Here is a pic of the underside of Toroeisi taken some years ago, and you can see the large clearance on the side of the casing. Of course, the c/b does need to be in contact with the case to stop it rattling, but that only needs to be in the area of the cheek discs, and friction there should not stop the board from dropping, as the weight of the board has a long lever arm.
Ian B
Ex Investigator 563 #50 Yara
Ex Investigator 563 #50 Yara
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
My boat is at my club and I have not had a chance to look up its skirt so to speak. I am taking the wetsuit with me on Sunday and anticipate levering the centre-board free after taking a dip. Hopefully I will get it up in the air sometime soon to have a proper look.
Update
Alright - I forgot the wetsuit and towel but I did have fiddle. Unfortunately the water wasn't deep enough to get the centreplate all the way down. I only got it as far as being able to feel the attachment point. What ever is making it stick is still there as the plate is not free at all. I'm wondering if it might be bent?
I'll have to get it in the air and that won't be for a couple of weeks.
Update
Alright - I forgot the wetsuit and towel but I did have fiddle. Unfortunately the water wasn't deep enough to get the centreplate all the way down. I only got it as far as being able to feel the attachment point. What ever is making it stick is still there as the plate is not free at all. I'm wondering if it might be bent?
I'll have to get it in the air and that won't be for a couple of weeks.
Peter
Pip #127
Pip #127
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Finally, the boat has been swung into the air and I have a had a chance to have a look at the problem of my stuck centreplate.
The plate was extremely hard to move but eventually I forced it down. A bit of probing with flat pieces of metal including my little hand-saw saw a large quantity of rust and paint flakes raining down. Further work with a high pressure water cleaner saw more rust and paint and a little mud. The plate was still hard to move and it became a process of forcing the plate to different positions, having a scrape, applying more high press water; repeat. Eventually the plate began to move better but not freely. I actually attached 3mm spectra to the plate where the lift point is and passed this under the boat to the stern. I would use this to start the plate moving. A good jerk would see the plate fall to about 40 degrees. After using a bit of compressed air and letting it all dry out I liberally applied a spray can lubricant to both sides of the plate and as far up the slot as possible. This helped things considerably.
I need to still loosen the pivot bolts. That will be an interesting challenge as mine are covered with Westsystem. Eventually I will need to refurbish the centreplate.
So mud was not the problem.
Based on my previous experience you only need a bit of plate down for the boat to beat properly and to overcome any tendency to broach. Having that line under the boat to ensure the plate moves is my short term fix.
The plate was extremely hard to move but eventually I forced it down. A bit of probing with flat pieces of metal including my little hand-saw saw a large quantity of rust and paint flakes raining down. Further work with a high pressure water cleaner saw more rust and paint and a little mud. The plate was still hard to move and it became a process of forcing the plate to different positions, having a scrape, applying more high press water; repeat. Eventually the plate began to move better but not freely. I actually attached 3mm spectra to the plate where the lift point is and passed this under the boat to the stern. I would use this to start the plate moving. A good jerk would see the plate fall to about 40 degrees. After using a bit of compressed air and letting it all dry out I liberally applied a spray can lubricant to both sides of the plate and as far up the slot as possible. This helped things considerably.
I need to still loosen the pivot bolts. That will be an interesting challenge as mine are covered with Westsystem. Eventually I will need to refurbish the centreplate.
So mud was not the problem.
Based on my previous experience you only need a bit of plate down for the boat to beat properly and to overcome any tendency to broach. Having that line under the boat to ensure the plate moves is my short term fix.
Peter
Pip #127
Pip #127
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Night 2
I have tied a stopper knot to the lifting pennant to put the plate at about 85 degrees when fully down. I have marked the same rope with tape to indicate 45 degrees of plate.
The centreplate moves to about 50 degrees if started with the line under the stern but when I pull it it up the centreplate stays up without lashing off; but generally the movement up and down is easier tonight than yesterday.
Possibly my pivot bolt is too tight but I think there is still material up there in the slot. The plate moved well enough back when I tightened the pivot bolt.
I have tied a stopper knot to the lifting pennant to put the plate at about 85 degrees when fully down. I have marked the same rope with tape to indicate 45 degrees of plate.
The centreplate moves to about 50 degrees if started with the line under the stern but when I pull it it up the centreplate stays up without lashing off; but generally the movement up and down is easier tonight than yesterday.
Possibly my pivot bolt is too tight but I think there is still material up there in the slot. The plate moved well enough back when I tightened the pivot bolt.
- Attachments
-
Last edited by Dr. Peter on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Peter
Pip #127
Pip #127
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Looks likes I'm not the only one with swinging keel issues. I managed to get it down after hours under the boat with rust falling all over my face. Built a DIY hoist with left over metal to get a better access. Will spend the next few days working on it, at the moment only brute force will move the CB down. I guess eventually I will have to replace the CB, does anyone knows where I can get one made in Melbourne?
- Attachments
-
-
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Hey guys,
I made up these 125mm thrust washers out of 3.5mm polypropylene sheet, I cut them out with a laser but it didn't cut well, it sort of just welded back together as it cut.
The idea is to jam the split in them over the center plate pin then close them up and lock them closed with the dovetail , Hopefully it will stop the clanging.
Steve
I made up these 125mm thrust washers out of 3.5mm polypropylene sheet, I cut them out with a laser but it didn't cut well, it sort of just welded back together as it cut.
The idea is to jam the split in them over the center plate pin then close them up and lock them closed with the dovetail , Hopefully it will stop the clanging.
Steve
- Attachments
-
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
I posted a picture of mine and while it looks a whole lot better than yours but is it? After all I had the same problems you did.
I think part of my problem was that the 'nice' paint stopped any rust from falling out when small, instead it built up under the paint into large flakes and then became a problem.
In any event, perhaps you should get yours sandblasted and make a decision then. If you think its OK treat it with a rust inhibitor and re-install.
There are some guidelines on the site about how to remove and install the centreplate and I think some guys can tell you about how they constructed theirs from other materials. If you decide to go steel plate again, then any general metal fabrication shop should be able to do it, especially with the original as a template. It isn't a complicated shape.
If you did go for a purpose-built foil then I think you would be up for major dollars.
I think part of my problem was that the 'nice' paint stopped any rust from falling out when small, instead it built up under the paint into large flakes and then became a problem.
In any event, perhaps you should get yours sandblasted and make a decision then. If you think its OK treat it with a rust inhibitor and re-install.
There are some guidelines on the site about how to remove and install the centreplate and I think some guys can tell you about how they constructed theirs from other materials. If you decide to go steel plate again, then any general metal fabrication shop should be able to do it, especially with the original as a template. It isn't a complicated shape.
If you did go for a purpose-built foil then I think you would be up for major dollars.
Peter
Pip #127
Pip #127
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Finally got the CB out. Drilled a small hole and attached a shackle, had an olympic bar and 140kg + two adult standing at each end, totalling 250kg and the the cb only dropped half way. Eventually my wife got it out, she has more patience than i do. The rust and the plastic plates (does anyone know what they are called?) on each side of CB was our problem. I need new ones made! The CB itself shoulb be OK for the next season or two, grinded the rust and rust converter. Any adviced is appriaciated
Re: Swinging, swinging keel
Wow, this topic has been going for some time.
We have just finished nine days at Gippsland Lakes in Victoria. Four days were really good sailing in a variety of conditions: runs, reaches, beats - with code zero versus first reef in the mainsail. Pip's centre-plate chose not to make an appearance; again!
You know - with the better performance of my larger and deeper ex-Hartley 18 rudder - it really did not seem to be an issue.
It has been said that the boat will slip going to windward but I did not really notice that last week. Most of the time we sail two-up and one of us generally sits to leeward in most situations. We tried something new this time in one brisk blow - I sat up near the safety rail and consequently the boat stood up more and we tended to end up at the thing we aimed at. The one exception was beating using the code zero - which does not point very well but does make the boat move to windward in light breeze. On the jib we had no such concerns.
If you really take a look at the surface area of our skeg and compare it to a swinging centre-board TS I think 563s compare very favorably.
Do we really need the centreplate if we have good sails and a better rudder?
Discuss.
This site looks interesting:
http://www.oceansail.co.uk/articles/kee ... ticle.html
We have just finished nine days at Gippsland Lakes in Victoria. Four days were really good sailing in a variety of conditions: runs, reaches, beats - with code zero versus first reef in the mainsail. Pip's centre-plate chose not to make an appearance; again!
You know - with the better performance of my larger and deeper ex-Hartley 18 rudder - it really did not seem to be an issue.
It has been said that the boat will slip going to windward but I did not really notice that last week. Most of the time we sail two-up and one of us generally sits to leeward in most situations. We tried something new this time in one brisk blow - I sat up near the safety rail and consequently the boat stood up more and we tended to end up at the thing we aimed at. The one exception was beating using the code zero - which does not point very well but does make the boat move to windward in light breeze. On the jib we had no such concerns.
If you really take a look at the surface area of our skeg and compare it to a swinging centre-board TS I think 563s compare very favorably.
Do we really need the centreplate if we have good sails and a better rudder?
Discuss.
This site looks interesting:
http://www.oceansail.co.uk/articles/kee ... ticle.html
Peter
Pip #127
Pip #127