Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

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Geoff
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Investigator Boat Name: #50 Timeless
Location: Monto, Queensland

Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Geoff »

I can't imagine that hull/sail numbers would be allocated any other way than 'no way' said, that is in production order.

'Registration Authorities' wouldn't be likely a factor, as some boats wouldn't have been registered. Here in Qld we don't have to register boats unless their mechanical power is greater than 4hp. Neither of mine are registered. And the Moreton Association was the strongest club in the beginning I think.

As I said in my previous post, I think 1985 is too late a build for # 111. The last one built was 172? and that was late 80s. It would be assumed as Ray has elsewhere posited that production would have diminished in the later years. So 111 is more likely early 80s I am guessing.

If you have an unbroken chain of boat and/or trailer rego it is more straightforward. My # 50 boat was registered, and the trailer registered too, in Sydney in 1976. I have even been given the names of the 4 previous owners. But I have broken that chain now, no rego on the boat and Qld rego on the trailer. But I can confidently provide a birth year because I have the old docs.

Different for 111. It was given a major makeover by the owner before the one who sold it to me. Was very likely unregistered, boat and trailer when the project started.

For insurance for the boat and for trailer rego, you have to specify a manufacturer and hear of manufacture. I suspect they best-guessed and plucked 1985 out of the air. No foul there, I have registered quite a few s/h unregistered trailers. Manufacturer is 'Homemade' and year is whatever I think sounds reasonable.

I guess what will give us the best indication is other owners close to our numbers who have some confidence in the year on their insurance and rego papers. Best of all would be ones who bought the boat new. :D
Geoff
Investigator #50 'Timeless'
Investigator #111 'Missy'

As the engineer said, "sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?"
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Ozzie
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Ozzie »

I think Spritzig II’s (#143) trailer rego says 1980 not sure. I’m away at the moment but I’ll check.

Speaking of years of manufacturing. Interesting thought on that age of technology struck me. What cars were released at that time?
The XD Falcon comes to mind but I couldn’t afford one till 10 years later. I had a 75 Gemini Coupe which we actually drove into the ground till it had 400k km on it while saving for a house in the 80s. $12k for a sailing boat was millionaires stuff in 1980 :lol:
819747A4-D8F4-4C0E-BB85-EDA6F8043D8F.jpeg
Happy 2023 folks do our boats qualify as veteran TS’s now ?? They don’t look a day over 15.
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
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Geoff
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Geoff »

:thumbsup:
Geoff
Investigator #50 'Timeless'
Investigator #111 'Missy'

As the engineer said, "sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?"
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Raya
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Raya »

Some years ago, I went through my list of Investigators. It was obvious that many of the dates of manufacture that I had accumulated were just guesses by previous owners, but others seemed to be about right . I plotted the boat number of these Investigators against the given year of manufacture and came up with the plot below. I've also overlaid a couple of the obvious changes that have occurred during production. The graph isn't definitive but should give a good guide when determining the year of manufacture.

Hope this helps.
Boat number as a function of time.
Boat number as a function of time.
Ray
Investigator #39
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Geoff
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Geoff »

Ray that's gold, thanks. I was going to start a new topic and ask you for a list of change points as you discussed them here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=326&hilit=history&start=10

Because its only a relatively small production run we don't have Mk 1's, 2's etc, but we do have change points that you have documented so well. I personally think the change points mean more than the date of manufacture, but its still great to have some sort of timeline.

One other difference that intrigues me is the rigging, which is why I started the other topic to see if it was a 'change point' or just random:

viewtopic.php?f=4&p=9005#p9005

Thanks again!
Geoff
Investigator #50 'Timeless'
Investigator #111 'Missy'

As the engineer said, "sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?"
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Geoff
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Investigator Boat Name: #50 Timeless
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Geoff »

Ray, while we are here, can you nail down the change points that you have pointed out?

When I read your posts in the topic I have linked to, is it boats up to #54 had the early transom, #55 on the later type?

And the single/double hinge - you reference #107, but is that the last of the singles or the first of the doubles?

I don't know what our chances would be of pinning down the first and last Good Design Award? (by sail number)

Thanks!
Geoff
Investigator #50 'Timeless'
Investigator #111 'Missy'

As the engineer said, "sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?"
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Peter T
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Peter T »

Hi Guys. This is excellent stuff. Well done. Cheers
Regards Peter T
" Sail-La-Vie," # 114


"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
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Raya
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Raya »

My conjecture on the "change points" comes from photographs I have collected over the years of various Investigators. The problem is that you need a confirmed boat number as well as a photo of the aspect you are looking for. In some cases, the boat number given by the owner may not be correct as I have a few "doubles" on file. In any case, here are the details that I have been able to confirm (ish).

Early Stern:
#53 - Clever Girl, has a confirmed early stern.
#59 - Beagle, has a confirmed later stern.

I have some photos of #57, Mayhem but the stern isn't visible.

Single/double hatch hinges.

Here we can get close. #106 Restless has a single hinge; #108 Private Eye has two. I have a photo of the man in the middle, #107 Mishka, but unfortunately, the front hatch isn't clear enough to see the hinges. The Investigators after #108 have 2 hinges except for #119. I have found three Investigators which purport to be #119, so likely an error here.

Good Design

As suggested, this is much harder to pin down as the plate could have been removed however I'm fairly confident with this.

#50 Yarra is the earliest boat that shows the GD award with #98, (with the drop keel mod) the last.
#100 hasn't got a plaque in the photo I have, but there are a couple of dimples on the bulkhead where it would have been. A compass is mounted slightly above where the GD plate position so #100 possibly had one. The plaque doesn't appear on any of the boats after this except for good old #119 Allana. Given the round numbers, I'd say that boats between #50 and #100 all had the GD plate attached at some time.

I'd like to know if anyone has any outliers to the boats I have identified. Maybe, as time goes by, we might be able to pin down the change points a little better.
Ray
Investigator #39
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Geoff
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Geoff »

That's great Ray, enquiring minds want to know!

I have contact details for Mishka's owners, so I will contact them and see if they can enlighten us.
Geoff
Investigator #50 'Timeless'
Investigator #111 'Missy'

As the engineer said, "sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?"
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Raya
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Re: Does the year of manufacture make much difference?

Post by Raya »

Here is my only photo of Mishka next to the yellowed hulled #172.
Mishka and Baby Doll
Mishka and Baby Doll
Miska (white) at Taree.jpg (26.56 KiB) Viewed 1156 times
Ray
Investigator #39
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