Differences between #50 and #111

[Geoff]

It is interesting comparing 2 Investigators side by side. I was curious as to possible differences, and similarities.

Some of the differences will affect functionality, some are little more than cosmetic. Here are some in no particular order, I will add to them as I discover more, or remember them. This is from the viewpoint of someone who has been sailing for less than 2 years and only on one boat, yay Timeless. So if anyone wants to comment on any differences and give their opinions on possible effects, thanks.

I will pop up a few relevant photos too.

#50 was made in 1976 and #111 best guess early to mid eighties.

Neither has a furling jib.

#50 has a single hinge front hatch, #111 has double.

#50 has aluminium toerail with stamped slots. Very handy bit of gear. Even negates the need for a genoa track for me at least, I have pulleys attached to snap shackles and can move them quickly enough as needed. #111 has no toerail, very tidily finished with a piece of aluminium channel to cover the join, but no function.

#50 has the standard (or what I believe is standard) small block for tensioning the backstay. #111 does not have one. It has a bottle screw on the backstay where the bridle joins the mainstay. My understanding (from reading the Moreton Investigator Assn notes) is that the block allows control over mast-bending. My sailing skills and experiences haven't required me using it this way yet, but I imagine that more skilled sailors would. But on #111 it would be set at rigging up and that would probably be that.

#50 has single shrouds and diamond stays. #111 has upper and lower shrouds, which seems superior.

#50 has a drop rudder, and the tiller is pivot-pinned and can be swung to vertical to improve cockpit space when not under way, or lifted enough to clear knees etc. #111 has the standard rudder. The tiller is very attractive but is just an interference fit in the top of the rudder. I guess that is standard?

Both have fully sealed cockpit lockers, as in sealed between the locker and the cabin. Both have inspection hatches on the inside of the transom for easy access to rudder pintles. Both have one square and one round storage bin molded into each quarter bunk, with lids. #111 also has one small inspection hatch in each bunk also, I don't know what for.

#50 has a wide mainsheet traveller, made from aluminium and bowed to follow the transom outline. The stops are controlled by lines that go through blocks, 4 parts of rope. #111 has a traveller that doesn't cover nearly as much ground. It is flat, not bowed and mounted on little standoffs. The stops are pins, the same as the ones on the jib tracks. I don't know if all early Investigators had the same track as #50, but one of the early owners did taking class racing seriously when there was an active Investigator class. For cruising, the later type would be much easier, but I assume the other one would give more control options.

#50 has no winches. #111 has winches on the coachroof, but no jib cleats. I don't know if the person who installed them hadn't gotten around to fitting them. The only thing I can think is they may have used the aft mooring cleats. If there are other possibilities, please educate me.

On #111, the roller itself has been taken out of the anchor roller and a small bowsprit inserted and pinned through halfway along its length. It is a bought job, not homemade. The back end is clamped to the samson post so the effective length is only about a foot. I think it would be much more useful moved forward and held down to the winch ring on the front of the boat with a short line when in use, and swung up to the pulpit when not. The effective length would be better than half a metre then.

Interior fitout - The mattresses in #50 are 50mm foam, in #111 they are 100mm and much more dense. It is a shame they are moldy, even some of the foam and probably buggered. They would have been much better to sleep on than the thin ones.

On #50, the electrics - vhf radio and depth sounder etc - are set up on the portside aft bulkhead. I have the depth sounder mounted on a bit of ply that swings out into the companionway. There is a slide out cooker on the starboard side. There are also shelves running full length above the quarter bunks, very useful.

On #111 the electrics and depth sounder are on the starboard aft bulkead - 27mhz radio and a fairly flash entertainment radio that can take cds, flash cards and usb as well as different radio bands. Also has speakers in the cabin and waterproof speakers set into the cockpit lockers. Someone liked their music options. The depth sounder is mounted on a small ss bracket that allows it to swing out for cockpit viewing. No shelves or other fitout. There is a flash compass inserted into the port cockpit/cabin bulkhead that can be read from either side.

If I find anything else I will add it as I go.

[Manango]

Fantastic.
Thanks for the summary Geoff. When I clear the clutter, I will check out that all compares to Ripple #47.

[Peter T]

A difference I have noticed on Spindrift to Private Eyes is the pushpit and pulpits are different on each boat and have their mounting points to the deck in different distances along the deck. Also, mine has Barlow NO 5 winches mounted on the cockpit combing which I believe were not original, so I reckon mine was built without any. I will leave them where they are for Genoa/ spinnaker and I have purchased a pair on NO 6 ones to mount on the cabin top each side of the opening hatch. Mine also has the set of fibreglass shelves which I believe were optional fitted above the bunks and just below the side windows on each side . The front of them is on the same plane as the cabin sides and go back to the hull. They have three oblong openings in them. As you said, very handy

[Geoff]

Thanks for the memory jog Peter.

The pushpits and pulpits are different here too. I believe #50 has a superior setup. On #50 the ss pushpit, pulpit and each stanchion are fully welded to their mounting bases, and bolted/screwed to deck. The stanchions are fully enclosed ss on the tops.

On #111 the pushpit and pulpit appear to be slipped on over stub mounts that are attached to the deck. They feel less rigid, even wobbly. Similarly, the stanchions have separate mounts that ss tubing is slipped into and held with lock screws. On top, they have chair foot rubbers to keep the water out.

[Ozzie]

Good comparison Geoff. I think after 40 years there would be very few cases of two boats the same. Ray correct me here if you can but I think there was a bare hull option where you bought a basic 563 and did the fitout yourself. So many different setups could have come about. The taffrail on Spritz is full cockpit length and I have only one stanchion on either side, which I think is the only one I’ve seen like that.

I used to think that there were also different sized windows but Ian B suggested that it was just bigger Perspex covers and I think he was quite right. If you look at the picture of Robert B’s boat that used to be the site logo it appears to have very big tinted windows but now I realised that it had large covers over the standard openings. So the single hinge ( and I think a drainage groove in the front deck were the only real mold mods.

110B7959-3A7E-4150-8484-2E60AC7E94AC.jpeg (43.2 KiB) Viewed 1717 times

See, larger and totally different shaped windows, fooled me for years but the actual openings are probably the same behind. After now looking at all the boat pics that Ray has gathered I think this is the only one like this.

I don’t think winches were ever standard as I don’t think they are mentioned in any of the Morten Bay info . I know a vang was not standard as this is mentioned in one of the earliest reviews. K.S.I think really intended the 563 to be a simple and unconfusing design for the newbie sailor and it was only that they sailed so well that people began modifications that were more in keeping with a more advanced purpose. In this world of Bluetooth and wifi we forget how impoverished consumer items used to be. My first car a 1965 cortina had one ventilation lever on the dash FreshAir on FreshAir off no heater, no demister, no fan, no radio, no carpets, no nothing , no kidding. Mind you at 17 years old I thought I was Jack Brabham.

[Peter T]

Yes Ozzie, back in the day, luxury was vinyl on the floor and air conditioning was a quarter vent window