Electric yachts - the future?

[Ozzie]

Maybe you could with a bolt on extension to equal standard rudder surface area?

Would be good as an emergency rudder if you cracked a pintle.

[Ozzie]

This topic is now approaching 12K views

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2020/02/w ... boat-fuel/

Some interesting developments. Actually article is a few years old but I just discovered it .

[Ozzie]

I am constantly finding new info on electric cars/boats/viability etc since we began this thread. Clearly we have attracted much interest (now nearly 14,000 hits) with this thread going on the hits to our little patch, so post away. It gets lost on me mostly as I don’t use twit…er or book of face that we have a world wide audience on here sometimes courtesy of google and other search engines. That’s why we picked a very interesting post from Franklin and much thanks to him for that..

Anyway, by accident I found this TED talk on YouTube last night which added again to my knowledge on the subject. I have always maintained that electric cars are just as guilty of what we drive now as being resource hungry to produce but the CO2 figures on their long term use was a revelation. Anyway, this is a short talk but long on easily understood information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

Don’t be put off by the first few lines…..it’s a setup.

Also this was in my news app this week from ABC News. Just read it in conjunction with the above talk. Bottom line…there is no free lunch.

John McColl's boat is whisper quiet, costs next to nothing to run and has zero emissions. So what's the catch?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-25/ ... /101155566

[Ozzie]

Update
In our recent travels west we spoke to a couple plugged into a charge station near a country pub we’d both stopped at for lunch. They were happy to talk about it. The NRMA station was presently free but soon was only going to be free for members. Range had not been an issue so far, but they were planning a long trip west and that was going to represent some issues.

We both went our separate ways to the pub and after an hour plus we returned to our motorhome. They were still there waiting for their charge to complete. Interesting that there was only one station with two different plugs, one on each side. This of course brings up the question what if some other electric car had pulled up five minutes after them . They would still be waiting to even connect.

These seem to be the questions that are not being asked too often in our rush to convert to elec trickery . There is also lots of questions regarding the operation and business models of service stations. Had a mate who was a console operator years ago . He said they make more money as a percentage on selling chocky biscuits that fuel. Dawned on me going down to the ACT before heading west at the station on the freeway between Newcastle and Sydney. At the moment each pump probably turns over say 6 customers per hour allowing 10 mins per fill. They probably all buy something inside inside at high markup even if it’s only a coke. Ok, let’s drop that back to one customer per hour. He does not buy 6 cokes! Maybe one coke and a burger. Multiply that by 35 pumps and there goes your bottom line . May explain why Coles Supermarkets announced they are selling off their servos today. Probably Woolies will follow .

This thread has 19 billion hits now

[Andrew]

Interesting stuff, According to one of Ozzie's links articles It's about $1000 per HP for new marine electric propulsion power now. Running costs minimal (with shore recharge power) until a battery dies (cost?) I'm easing into off-grid electrification with battery powered gardening and workshop tools, and they are great (but within limits) (eg My initial single 18v Ryobi 1+ tool 2AH Li-ion battery lasted about 3 years, replaced it with two 5AH ones for $200, so that's $20/amp hour of storage capacity.. recently saw the same batt 2x pack for $140 fathers day sale, good things come to those who can wait! but then when the batt dies you can't wait.. ).

The battery electrical recharge costs are minimal, guess the "maintenance cost" is getting a new battery which is an easy DIY fix (no mechanics generally required for the electrical tools, what about electric outboards?)

Then there is the Co2 / noise emissions issues. Electric great on a crowded canal or harbour with short distances to run, keeps the local environment clean and quiet.

The TED talk was interesting Ozzie, what about the Co2 emissions of the electricity source, the manufacturing source and the final machine disposal/recycling method all need to be added up. (And the same for the hydrocarbon supply chain, use and machine disposal) But it shouldn't be used as an argument to not steadily take up renewable energy. Like here in Qld (and probably NSW) at the present time most electricity generation is still Co2 emitting coal and gas fired, renewables are gradually displacing this. it's good to slowly wean ourselves off fossil fuels when possible but these will still play a vital role until major energy tech changes eventually become mainstream. It's interesting how the TED speaker concluded that Hybrid petrol/electric cars could be a good way to go for now (eg Toyota hybrids like Prius).

Also there was bit of a twitter spat on between Elon Musk (electric/batts camp) and Twiggy Forest / Mike Cannon brooks (green hydrogen/ hydrogen fuel cells camp) bit like the video format war (Beta vs VHS) of the 1980's ?! There is a hydrogen fuel cell truck project happening here in Townsville (imported semi-trucks already in production overseas), between Sun metal zinc refinery and Port of Townsville and Green hydrogen electrolyser projects being built too, to convert solar/wind into hydrogen fuel) Sun metals already has a 126MW solar farm https://www.sunmetals.com.au/sun-metals ... olar-farm/

Then there is strategic energy stability. like when an global economic crisis/war occurs. locally produced (and available locally) energy whether it's hydrocarbon or renewable is a good thing.

[Ozzie]

Then there is strategic energy stability. like when an global economic crisis/war occurs. locally produced (and available locally) energy whether it's hydrocarbon or renewable is a good thing.

Couldn’t agree more Andrew . In fact energy autonomy is probably one of the most compelling arguments in the current world “situation “ for pushing for change.

I’m only keeping adding to this thread as I’m interested that it gets so many hits. Absolutely beyond our modest membership. I’d also say that given our membership demographic we’d be in the group to take up new stuff like elec outboards, many of up being past the house buying stage of life with a tad more disposable income …and still the health to dispose of it .

I’m continuing to be fascinated by the various info and diverse opinions coming along. Weekly I hear things that get my attention. The podcast listed below from 5th September on LNL on the ABC is worth listening to . The middle 13 minutes is regular economic commentator Satyajit Das who I can amazingly listen to anytime as he makes the pretty dry topic of economics relevant to the average punter…and puts it in terms I can understand. In this interview he points out that like it or not, and he does not like it particularly, fossil fuels will be part of the economy for at least 70 years and I think he’s dead right.

He also says that our current mistake is we are on one side of a river, with fossil fuels, and on the other side is sustainable energy. Our problem is we are building a bridge to get there but want to blow up the old one before it’s finished. After 42 years of public service that does not surprise me. If we simply allow things to take their course without thorough planning and balance well…anyone remember the dog’s breakfast of Covid 19, when was that again? anyway if your interested it’s worth listening to the thirteen minute segment if for no other reason you can start arguments at bbq’s easier between both camps

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/l ... 0578418967

[Andrew]

Yes, hope they keep all the bridges open and don't burn any of them during the next few decades of transition, otherwise we might be up the creek without a paddle. Liquid and gas fuels should be around a while.

Checked the prices on E Class outboards website for the smallest motor 4kwh (8HP?) and it's single Li-ion battery https://eclassoutboards.com.au/packages ... h-battery/. This may be twice too much power for an I563, but It's good that they are upfront about the price.

For re-charging a battery at home or marina dock. This National Electricity Market NEM watch widget is interesting. Can see what's generating the electricity for the Australian grids, by each State or Territory, at the present moment in time. scroll down look right to see the overview graph "open NEM" for last few days overview of electricity sources inputs in Australia https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/ After dark recharging would be pumping out Co2 at the source in most States (except Tasmania on Hydro and SA about half wind powered)

[Ozzie]

https://mr4x4.com.au/chicken-parmis-fue ... ter+%23425

Well the solution is here if only we could install a processor on the 563 that would convert chicken parmi to electrical energy directly I’m in . Sorry, gotta go, my bacon powered watch says it’s breakfast time.

[Andrew]

Outback Australia EV-ing is going to take awhile longer than the coastal areas, (check the comments out!) But its an interesting start-up idea to save early adopters in that hostile landscape.

Meanwhile, back to the Ocean in Norway, marine engineers are into it. First marine hydrogen fuel cell power plant was approved for commercial use. It's early days and the HFC powerplant in the story is designed for ferries.. https://blog.ballard.com/hydrogen-fuel- ... ine-engine anyway it's a new direction in powering marine electric motors.

Perhaps one day that tech might downsize and trickle across to outboard motors?. It would certainly get the energy density for high powered or long range applications, like offshore reef boats or long distance vessels.

Like the bacon powered watch Ozzie! I've got an Automatic one, it should run at least 20 years into a post apocalyptic world without batteries..(nuclear bomb brinkmanship going on in Northern Hemisphere) Perhaps boats could get a power generating mechanism based on the auto watches one,! all that rolling around at sea could wind a spring up or something.

[Ozzie]

Actually Andrew 50 years ago we had a local inventor , I can still remember his name , Arnold Delaney. He was a bit of a local identity as he was also the Editor of the Charlestown Post. He invented a bilge pump for moored boats that worked not unlike an automatic watch . Simple rocking movement of the boat cranked a long arm with a float on the end. He patented the device and was on “The Inventors” on the ABC from memory. Not sure if it ever took off but it was as cleaver as sliced bread . Anyway maybe something will come up in a similar light to create electricity. You’re dead right lots of energy wasted in a rocking boat.

Good grief I googled him and a link came up. This forum does lead down rabbit holes occasionally
https://history.lakemac.com.au/page-loc ... narid=3915