Removing all the lead from the Keel

[Peter T]

Hi all, has anyone removed all the lead from the keel?
Also, has anyone removed the cabin sole?
I would think that with the cabin sole removed, access to the lead would be far easier. It seems that the cabin sole if fibreglass which has probably been fitted by sitting it on wet fibreglass and let set. I would think that a certain amount of leverage would be required to get it out.
When I purchased the boat and took it home and parked it in the shed, I had the jockey wheel set to its lowest. The next morning I noticed a pool of water under the front of thr centreboard section of the keel.
On closer inspection, water was dripping out about an inch forward to the centreboard opening as well as about 8 inches aft of the front leak. That was last Sunday and water is still dripping from those two points
The boat has obviously been heavily grounded at some time in its life and has damaged the fibreglass sufficiently to cause it to leak, letting water in to at least one or some of the lead cavities. Water would not drip out if there was no hole ! I am not sure if the lead compartments of the keel are fully sealed from each other, but my belief is that they should be if they are not. The previous owner assured me that the boat had no Leaks So, buyer beware, although he did offer to give me a refund If I returned the boat to him.
Once I get the lead out, it will all need to be thoroughly dried out, use metho to draw moisture out from the fibres of the glass, then epoxy fibreglassed from the inside before re installing the lead and sealing over the top again and then making the repair with epoxy fibreglass on the outside.
Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Regards Peter T

[Ozzie]

That’s bad news Peter, I’m confident it’s fixable but hopefully not excessive work involved.

To the simplest part, the cabin sole is removable, I’ve not done it myself but quite a few have . I think there may be pics in the gallery. I think I’d replace mine with a one piece removable marine ply setup if the need ever occurred. One owner removed and replaced it end about for better access to the forward bilge.

Removal of the lead ingots may prove problematic. They were, in many cases, apparently filled around with concrete . If the mild steel lifting “handles “ are still viable you may be able to attach an overhead pulley and apply some vertical force that way after removing the pop top . They have FG overfill that seems to be of variable structural integrity. In SPRITZIG II it feels like the Rock of Gibraltar so it may not be that easy on your boat. My great concern is that might cause further cracking. Hopefully one of our members who has had similar issues with more hands on solutions for you will show up over the weekend with more detailed advice.

[Peter T]

Hi Ozzie, yes, the metal hooks are there and easy to see in both the forward and aft bilges. I reckon the best way forward is to remove the lead from each side of the centreboard cas first as the glass over these sections is very thin as I have read in other posts and it seems that way with mine also. Once I have done that and dried it out in there, I will probably be able to determine if there is moisture seeping from any of the other cavities. I think the fibreglass is thicker over ft have front and back lead ingots and I suspect these have been cast in possibly one piece which Witt make it heavy and he sees the metal hooks. Time will tell, am waiting a while to see what replies I get before going in the deep end. Thanks for your reply
At least, once I have finished with it will be fixed properly, and I believe that the boat deserves it, it's done nothing wrong, it's only previous owners that have done that. Cheers

Regards Peter T

[sheepstations]

It's been awhile since I've been on the forum and happened across this topic started by Peter T. As the person who sold him Spindrift, I'm not happy with the claims Peter has made about the sale.
First up I never advertised the boat for sale and was restoring it for my own use. Initially I did find water in the aft keel section which I thought I had fixed and as far as I knew, that was the end of that. It seemed to be more of a water seepage problem through poor fibreglassing in the aft bilge area over the keel.
I had only ever taken the boat out twice and to the best of my knowledge it didn't have any leaks. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of a cement garage floor and the boat was stored outside in our backyard. There's no way I would notice drips from the keel on our sodden grass and soil which in winter is one step removed from being marshland.
So when Peter rang me up about the dripping keel problem a few days later, trying to do the right thing, not only did I offer him a full refund but also offered to drive from Hobart to northern Tasmania to pick it up. I made this offer not ONCE but TWICE.
So this is total BS, "he did offer to give me a refund If I returned the boat to him".
It was entirely his choice to keep the boat so rather than posting notices about Buyer Beware and casting aspersions on me, maybe he should pull his head in and accept shit happens sometimes.
JR

[Peter T]

JR, Its a shame you have to resort to this. I never mentioned you in any of my posts. What I said was that it was a result of previous owners and that is correct. I do not know if it was you, the bloke before you or the original owner who damaged the boat, it matters not. Anyway, I know that I can fix it, that's why I chose to keep it and I will turn it into the boat that it is meant to be. Also, the trailer was that badly rusted, it would never have made the return trip. There is no metal left at the bottom of the V section of any of the cross members due to severe rust and as luck would have it, the trailer collapsed and the whole weight of the boat is now taken by the timber rails that guide the boat into the centre of the trailer which through good luck are caught by about half an inch on the drop axle. These wooden rails are held on by bolts through the wood via brackets which are welded to the cross members either side of the rusted out section otherwise the trailer would have folded in half down its length and the boat would have left the trailer and hit the road. Cost to me so far for the new trailer is well in excess of $2000 but when I saw the trailer, I knew it had to be replaced. Water is still dripping from the keel section of the boat. My priority has been to make the boat secure by building the new trailer. then I will continue removing the lead and drying out the inside of the keel properly before I do the fibreglass repairs both inside and outside the keel before reinstalling the lead.
And as for "Shit Happens", when I asked you if the boat leaked and you said no, dosnt leak a drop, I guess that's one case of shit happens. Then I asked you is it was registered and you said "the boat is registered but the trailer is not" in fact, the boat registration ran out in December 2018 ! I suppose that's another case of "Shit Happens"

[Peter T]

Hello all, well, while waiting for my new trailer to be galvanised, I thought it about time to get as much of the lead out from within the keel so I can start repairs where the boat leaks. I had an old chisel about 1 1/4 inches wide with no handle, so I welded a piece of 1/2 inch square on to the tang and welded a bolt into the end of that. It was then long enough to be able to chisel out the glass without having to try hammering it inside the keel cavity. This chisel was great to chisel away the very thin fibreglass covering the lead in each of the side compartments where the centreboard case is. The glass came away very easily leaving the lead bar exposed. its about 3 inch by 1 1/2 or 2 thick and as long as the centreboard case. These ingots lay in the boat on their edge. I then made up a lifting tool with a stand on one end of it and welded on half a chain link so as to attach a small piece of chain. drilled a 3/16 hole in the lead and cut a piece of angle iron with a couple of holes and screwed this to the lead using a bugle screw. The step in the end of the lifter rested on the fibreglass hull and used as a big lever, I was able to lift the lead from the back end enough to then be able to get it out. to fill up the space between the lead and the outside skin of the keel, the builders used about half inch pieces of foam. This is not a good idea, as it holds water and it was sodden in my case on both sides of the centreboard case. Anyway, that lead is out now, here are a few photo's to show you. Note that towards the back of the centreboard case there are two protrusions into the centreboard areas by about an inch or two. This is in fact the leading edge of the lead ingot that is behind the centreboard case. that was installed first, then they glassed in a bulkhead which sits on top of that leading edge of lead so I don't reckon it would be possible to remove the rear lead because of this. It is not sealed between the sections of the keel. there was water in mine and dripped out for 2 to 3 months, so it must have had a lot in there. when the water level got low, and the front of the boat was raised or lowered using the jockey wheel . the water would run from one compartment to another, so its definitely not sealed. Once it is all completely dry, I am going to fibreglass the bottom and up the sides a bit of the lead compartments and am considering filling around the lead by pouring slow set epoxy around the lead. I know that if I do this, I will never be able to remove the lead again but by the some token, it would never leak again either. If you have an opinion on this I would be interested to hear what you think. David has kindly offered to be involved in helping me with the fibreglass repair work as he has done so much of it, as so have I having already build a fibreglass yacht previously.

Regards Peter T

[Ozzie]

Like most things the boats were probably built to a price. I have no idea what the going rate for fibreglass work was forty years ago but has been mentioned on here before many were surfboard glassers who probably had limited skills in shipwright practices and no doubt were on a limited time for each boat. Really not much has changed in construction of anything when you think about it.

All in all I still have great confidence in the boat despite it’s flaws. I for instance have had minimal issues after sixteen years on the mooring and still have my original cb which is more than serviceable. Boats more than most machines require regular maintenance and after 40 years there can obviously be big gaps in the regular maintenance of our vessels, depending on who owned them. The fact that maybe 90 plus percent of these little boats are still sailing is probably a testament to their overall quality. Find a make of 40 year old cars that still have 90% on the road and I think you’ll agree we are doing ok . Just a thought.

[Geoff]

Ozzie,

I reckon you've nailed it, very valid comparison. Not too many XC Falcons or HZ Holdens running around

I went to TSP and did a search for 'Investigator'. Most of the topics that came up were responses to inquiries regarding a good choice of TS. I563's were highly recommended compared to others, and not bagged by anyone. A few similar aged boats were downvoted for specific faults. I am guessing that most faults that our boats have would be fairly generic to others of the same vintage and construction.

Easy to fault them in retrospect and in light of experience and advances in methods, but as you say, they were targeted at a specific market and had to be affordable - Bondy probably didn't buy one.

When I bought mine I had no experience or comparison so I relied on aggregate knowledge in forums, which tipped me into my choice. Very happy I went the way I did. Thankfully mine seems very sound. Actually amazes me that a 40 year old boat can be so sound, but still be so cheap to buy. Amazing ROI so far as entertainment goes.

Just hope everyone one of us gets to get the max enjoyment we can out of them.

[Geoff]

I have unscrewed the floor cover in the cabin, and checked out the holes at the rear of the cabin floor under the cockpit and they are all as dry as a bone. But is there somewhere more telling I can check?

My boat doesn't have automatic bilge pumps, just an old manual whale gusher. Ian (previous owner) said he had never used it.

[Peter T]

Hi Geoff. Have a look at the last photo that I put up on this post. If you are able to detect any water, it will be there around those two white lumps protruding into each side cavity beside the centreboard case. It will depend on how well or otherwise this has been glassed over but if I were you, I would use a syringe with a small dia tube instead of the needle and try and get it down there to the lowest point and try sucking with the syringe to see if you can suck up any of the water that will be in there. If it happens to be fully sealed with glass, you might not be able to suck it up but If you have ever had any water whatsoever in the boat, it could be there under the lead on each side
Regards Peter T