What Battery?

Dr. Peter
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Re: What Battery?

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Peter
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Andrew
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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

I've bought a 12v Century 102AH deep cycle battery "NS70T", it weighs 20.5kgs and is 260x171xH202mm in size. Cost about $200 on discount. It is maintainable flooded type with 6 electrolyte fill holes. https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/cen ... 02320.html Hope its the right one...deep cycles with very thick plates inside can be discharged heavily without much damage (normal car cranking batteries will not last long with deep discharges). I was thinking what if the sun doesn't shine for days and the solar can't top it up?

It is to replace a high cranking amps calcium sealed marine (starter) battery of 60AH (probably an unsuitable type), i bought at bias boating, that lasted for about 5 years. Still a learner when it comes to sailboat house batteries, thought the deep cycle should be better for this application with no motor to crank over. Is my battery overkill? Planning to do 3-7 day trips with a 37W ancient solar panel and 20A solar charge controller for top up. Only run 2 LED nav lights, LED anchor light, 2 old 10W cabin, 10W stern light (slowly going to LEDs), VHF radio, "beer can" 12-240V inverter and 12v ciggy lighter plug for mobiles etc. May one day add a tiller-autopilot.

To maintain the battery at home. Bought a 12v Century "CC1206" smart charger, Cost $149 on discount. bought both battery and charger from supercheap auto. It can be set to 6,3 or 1 amp out put. Can select sealed calcium, AGM/flooded or gel battery types. Used AGM/flooded and 6A settings to top it up after it sat idle for 6 weeks (general rule - output amps 10% of flooded batts storage AH) The charger can also de-sulphate the plates automatically and keep the battery topped up at 100% indefinitely on one 1amp setting , it detects battery voltage of 13.6v and adds amps automatically. Sounds like it will add years of extra life to idle batteries. (my previous charger was an 4A $30, cheap and nasty?) Century have good training videos https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/pro ... the-cc1206

I chose century because its Australian made, factory in SE Qld and gives 600 Aussie workers jobs. Plus the price and quality were good/ competitive with imports.

The battery was designed to go under a 4WDs hood, take extreme temperature and shaking. Also used for RV's, boats, caravans etc.

For future reference they also make a smaller 65Ah deep cycle flooded battery which weighs less. The whole deep cycle range also covers AGM and Gel batteries , these although probably better, were much more expensive than standard flooded ones. https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/products/deep-cycle

One thing i found out in the auto store (also at boating store) ,if you ask for a "marine battery" they will sell you a high cranking amps one (nearly all boats have electric start outboards or inboards, these batteries have thin plates inside) which is unsuitable for a Investigator 563's house battery use (unless you have an electric start outboard?!) I suggest it's better not to tell them its marine , just need a deep cycle.

Cheers
Last edited by Andrew on Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Andrew

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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

Found this info about the 4 types of battery for boats.

Flooded, AGM, Gel and Lithium. All their pro's and con's.

https://www.sailorsforthesea.org/progra ... atteries-0
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Ozzie
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Re: What Battery?

Post by Ozzie »

Thanks for that link Andrew, good to have a concise reference point . The small AGM I put in last replacement was sitting there for a year barely used . I thought I would be flat (or stuffed ) when I bought it home but it reached out full change on my graded charger very quickly and seems fine . I have not used Spritzig at night over winter so have not bothered to put it back out on the boat but it’s nice to know it didn’t discharge. It’s on a main isolation switch .
D24BB391-8F6F-4814-9B0F-E25E38C9E4FA.jpeg
I also had large AGM put in the motor home a year ago , not sure how old the previous one was but at least 3 years. Only advice my autolec gave was don’t leave it charging continuously or uncharging continuously, vary it . We use the thing regularly even if only for a day so it gets worked a bit . So far no problems. Lithium was offered as an option and I think my charger set up has a setting for that but enormous cost. As I’m only running lights and recharging iPads off it the expense was unjustified. Off-road we run the very efficient fridge on gas which is already in the van. In much the same vein we only use the battery in the boat for nav lights and phone. If overnighting we have seperate rechargeable lights for longtime use in the cabin although wired in LEDS that are convenient and short use like the head.

Be interested to know what everyone else uses in their Investigators.
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Peter T
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Re: What Battery?

Post by Peter T »

Hi all. I found that deep cycle Gel batteries are fine so long as they are kept as fully charged as possible all the time that they are not being used. This means that if you keep your boat at home, that you connect a fully automatic battery charger to them and leave it on all the time. Or, if the boat is on a mooring, then it's vital that a fully regulated solar panel is used to keep the battery topped up.
I have a sports car that I use a gel battery in . The car only gets occasional use and I leave it in the garage with the auto battery charger connected all the time and only unplug it when I am about to use the car. I have had 10 years good reliable use from these batteries and the only thing that made the battery break down was when I forgot on a couple of occasions to plug in the charger after parking the car. These batteries definitely do not like to be let go fully flat and then recharged. Mine only coped with that treatment a couple of times. However, I reckon they would last indefinitely if they were never flattened too far.
This brings us to how far does the battery discharge whilst using the boat. Very important not to discharge it too far, so any means of charging whilst using the boat will help enormously. In my boat, I have fitted the biggest capacity deep cycle gel battery that I could find and will be fitting a decent solar panel to the boat as well. You can never have too much power, ls my motto. Also let me say that I would never use what is known as a self regulating solar panel as they only have a cell cut out and without a proper regulator, they will cook the battery
Hope this is of use . Cheers
Regards Peter T
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Andrew
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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

G'day thanks for that battery and lights info, ozzie and Peter. that could save people allot of $$ and hassles,

I recently learnt the hard way. Had to go to nz for 3 months, so gave my daughter a quick crash course on the battery charger for the flooded deep cycle in boat and thought a top up monthly would do, also left the battery connected to the boats wiring. My bad, it turned out. It suffered from some discharge to at least 50% and sat weeks like that. Result was "sulphidation" lead sulphate (PbSo4) inside the cell plates. Then we all got covid so had zilch spare energy for 3 weeks to do anything much, but did top it up inside boat weekly with a long extension cord.

After recovering enough, bought the hydrometer. Which confirmed battery was degraded to about 75% maxed out after "charging" 24 hours or so. Finally had enough strength to extract and carry the 25kg battery out of the boat and next to a power outlet under house.

However , my charger is a smart one, so left it on for 4 days straight. Used all power outputs 6A, 3A and 1 A with switch off/on (this hopefully activated the "de-sulphidation" mode claimed on the 9-stage charging process. (even scraped what whitish PbSo4 i could reach off with a wooden skewer) The smart charger has gradually dissolved the lead sulphate deposits away.

It seems to have worked!? at least while the chargers on, the cells readings crept upwards slowly now 90-100%. Three are about 90%, two about 95% and one 100%. Guess the at rest results will be what matters.

The trickle (1A?) smart charge is a good idea Peter, and the century video guru says so too. though i've also heard don't leave batteries unattended due to potential fire hazard, so only run it when around by day. The Gel and AGM's do better when batteries are left unattended for long weeks, plus the lower maintenance like no topping up. (but easy to F... them with the wrong charger type or setting).
Andrew

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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

Ozzie wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:47 pm Thanks for that link Andrew, good to have a concise reference point . The small AGM I put in last replacement was sitting there for a year barely used . I thought I would be flat (or stuffed ) when I bought it home but it reached out full change on my graded charger very quickly and seems fine . I have not used Spritzig at night over winter so have not bothered to put it back out on the boat but it’s nice to know it didn’t discharge. It’s on a main isolation switch .
D24BB391-8F6F-4814-9B0F-E25E38C9E4FA.jpeg
I also had large AGM put in the motor home a year ago , not sure how old the previous one was but at least 3 years. Only advice my autolec gave was don’t leave it charging continuously or uncharging continuously, vary it . We use the thing regularly even if only for a day so it gets worked a bit . So far no problems. Lithium was offered as an option and I think my charger set up has a setting for that but enormous cost. As I’m only running lights and recharging iPads off it the expense was unjustified. Off-road we run the very efficient fridge on gas which is already in the van. In much the same vein we only use the battery in the boat for nav lights and phone. If overnighting we have seperate rechargeable lights for longtime use in the cabin although wired in LEDS that are convenient and short use like the head.

Be interested to know what everyone else uses in their Investigators.
G'day Ozzie Peter and other skippers, My battery is 102ah deep cycle flooded acid. i've now got 3 LEDs and 3 remaining original 10a bulb lights. 2 way radio on listen about 14hrs/day, and small device charging. Icebox only. Sailing top up mostly by 37w solar panel with regulator, plus rarely run engine recharge. It seems to work well for several days straight. Since then i've added a fishfinder and handheld GPS.

Still wondering if 102a battery is too much, cheaper around the 60a sizes. Then there is discharge without damaging it, 50% discharge in my battery's case. Noticed that Lithium Po4 can discharge to 80% without damage. Then noticed online that a 60a lithium was about $400ish and weighed only 7kg..perhaps an option. (they also last 2000 cycles, perhaps over 10 years, can sit idle for ages, maintenance free, prob needs an expensive lithium charger? cost effective in long run?). Has anyone run Lithiums? Also interested in any AGM, Gel and flooded stories. :-)
Andrew

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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

Ozzie wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:47 pm
I also had large AGM put in the motor home a year ago , not sure how old the previous one was but at least 3 years. Only advice my autolec gave was don’t leave it charging continuously or uncharging continuously, vary it . We use the thing regularly even if only for a day so it gets worked a bit . So far no problems. Lithium was offered as an option and I think my charger set up has a setting for that but enormous cost. As I’m only running lights and recharging iPads off it the expense was unjustified. Off-road we run the very efficient fridge on gas which is already in the van. In much the same vein we only use the battery in the boat for nav lights and phone. If overnighting we have seperate rechargeable lights for longtime use in the cabin although wired in LEDS that are convenient and short use like the head.

Be interested to know what everyone else uses in their Investigators.
.."Dont leave it charging continuously".. I'm applying that to my deep cycle flooded Pb acid battery. Using a 240v 24 hour timer to turn the battery charger on everyday and off every night. It comes on at 8am and off at 5pm (to soak up solar power, and can be ocassionally monitored).
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'.."Separate rechargeable lights".. could be used onboard/or camping. Oztrail rechargable LED lantern (was $50 on discount at tentworld, usually about $70) It has a solar panel on top, or can be recharged on 12V or 240V / or if that fails ordinary AA batteries. It also has a variable dimmer LED control. Also has a USB port (for recharging mobile phones)
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Ozetrail UFO LED tent light. Has 20 + 3 LEDs, runs on 4 AA batts. 3 modes. Bright 23 LEDS, med 20 LEDs and dim 3 leds. about $12-$20 bought mine at big w
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I'm going to use them as cockpit/boom lights in evening (It's also the trangia area)
HPM 24 hr timer
HPM 24 hr timer
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Ozetrail UFO LED tent light
Ozetrail UFO LED tent light
Oztrail rechargebale LED lantern
Oztrail rechargebale LED lantern
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Re: What Battery?

Post by Andrew »

Discovered a battery conditioning product for flooded lead acid batteries called "INOX - MX2". Bought a 90ml bottle for a 100AH battery for A$10.

My battery has made it over 4 years old so far, hoping this stuff can revive it a bit, extend it's life and increase efficiency (The price of a replacement 102AH deep cycle is over A$300 now, it's steadlily risen from A$200 4 years ago)

https://www.inoxmx.com/products/mx2-bat ... nditioner/ MX2 contains cadmium sulphate 50g/L which enables it to desulphate battery plates. "Jaycar" and "Road Tech Marine" (same company) also sell 1Litre bottles of MX2 for A$60. For those with high AH capacity battery banks (golf carts or electric propulsion)

Put some into the battery today, (the bottle is graduated in 15ml increments, 15ml per flooded cell on an 100AH) Hope it works ok.
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