small is beautiful

General Sailing Talk
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snoopebj
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 11:32 am

Re: small is beautiful

Post by snoopebj »

You mean like.....
“If you can’t repair it, maybe it shouldn’t be on board.” -Lin and Larry Pardey

Throw away your Ipad Navionics, Garmin e-trex, epirbs, radios, depth sounders fellas and polish up your sextant , plumb line, and semaphore flags.

Still an impressive sailing career though but again shows the danger of trying to force your opinions on everyone else.

Here's one of my favourites
"Boats, like whiskey, are all good"
R.D. Culler

P.S. This is all your fault Atles :lol:
Fair winds and following seas

Emrys
Investigator #166 'Current Affair'
Steve
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Re: small is beautiful

Post by Steve »

I think Lyn and Larry's books and DVDs are really trying to tell you how they do it, not a how to do it but it comes across differently to the more modern sailor. They are very much hands on people that learnt to sail and maintain a sail boat on a shoe string budget whilst they travel the world. People that often spend time in an isolated environment learn to get things done the only way they know how (something they have usually figured it out for themselves), they often do what they do very well. But when someone else comes along with a different method of doing something or a gadget that makes a particular job easier, they will often try to justify the way they do it without giving any thought. I use to see this allot in the outback with pastoralists especially when it came to mechanical things.
Yara50
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: small is beautiful

Post by Yara50 »

Steve, interesting to hear that you have a keelboat as well as the Investigator 563. Please tell us more about it, the whys and the way it works. I must confess to lusting after a keelboat again, but would find it hard to part with my Investigator. In my case there is no way I could have the time for a keelboat at the moment, so your story could be interesting.
Ian B
Ex Investigator 563 #50 Yara
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Ozzie
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Investigator Boat Name: Spritzig II
Location: Lake Macquarie
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Re: small is beautiful

Post by Ozzie »

This thread has got me browsing Microcruising sites again, just for the fun. This one was interesting...

http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boats-b ... inghy.html

...if only for the following snippet...

More people than ever are overnighting in and out of tiny boats. By mainstream yachting standards this is still aberrant, and probably always will be. I present as evidence a recent Cruising World Magazine review that described a Beneteau 34, with its hot-and-cold running water, as a "pocket cruiser."


... :D ..all in the eyes of the sailor.
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
Steve
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Re: small is beautiful

Post by Steve »

Yara50 wrote:Steve, interesting to hear that you have a keelboat as well as the Investigator 563. Please tell us more about it, the whys and the way it works. I must confess to lusting after a keelboat again, but would find it hard to part with my Investigator. In my case there is no way I could have the time for a keelboat at the moment, so your story could be interesting.
Its a real long story Ian, I basically just always wanted a yacht , an interest inherited from my father,
My wife and I own a small business that is open 7 days a week, it drives me Insane so I bought an Investigator to get me away from our shop. I was just going to go out and buy a keel boat to start with but I thought a trailer sailer would be better way of getting my wife into sailing, hind sight tells me I would have been better off spending the money on offshore sailing tuition with her instead of buying 563.
I have to travel 200kms to get it to the water and sail it at Freo-Rockingham, Busselton and Albany. We enjoy the sailing so much that we decided we must get something we can go places in so my wife bought me a ss 34. I had the 34 in Albany and I use to escape once a week to stay on it and sail it, The trouble is now we are so tied to our business that we don't get much time off, Maybe one day a month at the moment. I removed the 34 from the water, brought it home and we are getting it ready to go cruising. Hopefully by xmas it will be back in the water and we will then put our business on the market.
One of the things we like more about the bigger boat is the ability to move around easier, my wife feels alot safer on it and therefore gains more confidence when she goes about general sailing tasks.
The displacement is around 5 tons so its alot more stable and less effected by chop than the 563, Probably the worse thing about the 34 is you have very little steerage in reverse, Maneuvering in a marina when its windy is difficult. You try to do maneuvers slow and carefully but if the wind gets a hold of the bow and with little or no reverse steerage, you can get out of shape real quick. We have had lengthy discussions before we leave the dock to discuss how we are going to get the boat back into the pen if it is windy when we return, really just a communication and practice thing.
The cost of keeping the boat is quite high, Aprox 5k a year for a 12m pen and if you need hardstand services, $25> a day but My wife and I don't really spend our money on anything else , no flash cars, no overseas holidays, no expensive dinning etc so Its really quite cheep, some caravan parks charge more than that to keep an onsite van for a year. The biggest problem I see with keelboats is when you go to sell them and you really want to Quit them, you must be very realistic about its value, Trying to sell a boat for 3 years may cost you 20k for trying. Its very much a buyers market.
So my good points about the smaller 563.
Its trailerable and easy to tow.
Relatively stiff little boat to sail
Small, easy to maintain rig and sails, most parts are easy to source from local chandlery stores
Easy to go ashore
And the 34
More room!! easier to move around on and go about sailing
Sails unbelievably well, helm is easier and sail plan seems easier to balance
Lots more room in the cabin, more privacy, basically more room to live
Handles the rougher weather,( The West coast and South coast are pretty unprotected. Not alot of Navigable in land water ways to sail in)
More practical for long Ocean passages
I still have my 563 and sail it as much as I can, I will probably keep it forever and my boys can have it when I'm done, same for the 34.
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Ozzie
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Re: small is beautiful

Post by Ozzie »

Old thread I know but I was browsing microcruising threads last night on sailing anarchy and came across a link to this YouTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkaW-fu ... ture=share

The Paradox is a well known microcruising sailboat on the net but this is a very good vid showing how remarkable the performance is given they have no keel and no centreboard just “chine runners “ which is really just the Hull shape/design. I must admit to being fascinated by these small and simple craft. I will never build one but I admire the simplicity of the design and philosophy behind the concept.

We have always had small recreational things, caravans, boats etc and after living for three months in a kombi with two small kids we know it’s possible to adapt. Couples actually island hop in these things in the USA. Don’t think I’d want to go much smaller than the Investigator. Maybe if the mrs kicks me out.....probably only happen if I suggest going smaller than the Investigator :shock:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... r-anarchy/
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
peter yates
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Woodend Victoria

Re: small is beautiful

Post by peter yates »

Hi All,
Thanks to Ian, I have found my way back onto the site. Apparently I was one of the first members ten years ago!

Anyway this topic interests me as I have a tiny CAL14 as well as Tricksy, my I563 (sail number 4). I should be selling the CAL but I can't bring myself to do it as she (Gypsy) is such a nice little boat to sail and to look at. Sooner or later I will have to bite the bullet and sell Gypsy though. :cry:

Being an older sailor, and often going solo, I decided that in the interests of staying safe, I should look at a slightly bigger boat. Reasons were that if I fell off the CAL, I would struggle to get back aboard. Also a boat that if the worst happened would still float upright was appealing. Finally the CAL is really only suited to one 2 people and occasionally I might want to carry a small group of family or friends with me. Also having the ability to get out of the weather or overnight comfortably if necessary was an attraction of a bigger boat. So I bought my third I563.

I am one of the guys that post Gumtree ads. on Trailer Sailer Place, so I see a lot of boat ads. Lately I have seen a few quite big boats in the 25 foot range. It got me thinking that there are precious few advantages in a 25 footer over an I563 and lots of draw-backs. Some older 25 foot TS don't have pop-tops and don't have headroom, so the I563 scores there. Also some of the big boats don't have an enclosed toilet, so are no better than the I563 on that score. Unless you want a lot of interior space, the only area where the bigger hull scores is in a knot or two more hull speed. If this is not a deal breaker, why would you put up with all the numerous extra complications and expenses of owning a huge TS?

I loved my South Coast 25 and it was one of the bigger TS that did deliver full headroom, a mainsheet traveller that was out of the way, good sailing performance, lots of space and an enclosed toilet. But it was a huge thing to tow and getting a new trailer would have broken the bank.

I agree that everyone has a different idea about how big or small their boat needs to be, but I have found that I keep coming back to the I563 as it suits a lot of different purposes pretty well.
I563 number 004 - "Tricksy"
CAL14 - "Gypsy"
"Myf" the skiff
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Andrew
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Investigator Boat Name: Teria
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Re: small is beautiful

Post by Andrew »

Good topic Atles, Sailing philosophy!

I guess it's often about where one is at in life and the values that matter. Depends on how much time and budget is available too. I have a good book "Sensible Cruising - The Thoreau approach" , the authors cruise in about 30 footers but the philosophy/economics ideas are of value. There is a size/style of boat that's comfortable for the owner - a financial, creature comfort and safety balance.

Most boats with land-based owners, whatever size they are, do sit around doing nothing most of the time. That time enjoyed to costs ratio rings a bell. How much cash does one want just sitting there? In the smaller boats - dinghys and beach cats - day sailing is made easy, easy to rig and get away. I find the Investigator perfect for 2+ day cruises as the time/effort spent preparing and getting away is considerable compared to the small beach craft, it's not really a daysailer unless left rigged up somewhere. That's why I also sail a fatty knees 8 - for quick half-day sails but weather and choice of sailing area must always be permitting for that size/capability of micro-cruiser! (Thoreau spent allot of time on Walden pond in a small dinghy). I think the open - half cabin cruising dinghy 12-16 ft, has allot of merit - some are light enough to roll up a beach but the comfort factor is usually less than an I-563. (One of the best in this category i owned was a Caper cat 14, cheap and capable, its a fast wet-suit shore camping boat though! (It sailed all the places i've taken my I563 to as well..) That's one reason i upgraded to a Hartley 16 bit more comfortable slower but i found that for cruising it had an annoying slap slap slap on the hull at night so it was very hard to sleep! also a bit worried what would happen if it capsized and swamped, but that's hard to do)

I find the Investigator a great compromise on size/$ value/capability/safety and comfort. The tow-ability and rig-ability is critical too and almost silent at anchor!, it's a true micro-yacht.
Andrew

Investigator #9 Teria
peter yates
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Woodend Victoria

Re: small is beautiful

Post by peter yates »

Andrew wrote:Good topic Atles, Sailing philosophy!
I find the Investigator perfect for 2+ day cruises as the time/effort spent preparing and getting away is considerable compared to the small beach craft, it's not really a daysailer unless left rigged up somewhere.

Agree with this except that with a well sorted mast-raising system, the drama and time spent rigging/de-rigging can be reduced to a more reasonable level. Even so, I have never considered any of my I563's to be day-sailers. We are fortunate enough to have a holiday house with a tall enough carport to house the Investigator. It is walking distance from the launching ramp and our own jetty. When we arrive, getting the boat to the ramp, rigged, launched, up to the jetty and then back to the car and back home takes less than 2 hours. From then on, the boat is available within walking distance whenever the weather suits until the day before we head home again and reverse the process. I find that knowing I have at least a couple of weeks of sailing opportunities ahead, makes the rigging etc. much less stressful as I am not in a hurry.

I think the open - half cabin cruising dinghy 12-16 ft, has allot of merit - some are light enough to roll up a beach but the comfort factor is usually less than an I-563.

Agree again. That's why I still have my tiny CAL14 at my home base. It is a lot easier to tow, rig, launch etc than the I563, but is a capable, ballasted mini-cruiser or day-sailer. It also has beautiful sailing manners and can sit on close to 5 knots in most winds, so only perhaps a knot slower than the Investigator. Just before I bought the Investigator, I did a solo 30km sail from our rented holiday house in a place called Duck Arm on the Gippsland Lakes, around Raymond Island and back past Paynesville with only one tack involved. Admittedly the wind was in the exact right quarter to allow this, but I covered the 30km in less than 4 hours and never used the motor. As mentioned previously, the main reasons for getting my third I563 were the safety and load carrying factors.

I find the Investigator a great compromise on size/$ value/capability/safety and comfort. The tow-ability and rig-ability is critical too and almost silent at anchor!, it's a true micro-yacht.
Agree again :)
I563 number 004 - "Tricksy"
CAL14 - "Gypsy"
"Myf" the skiff
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Raya
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Investigator Boat Name: Tme Out
Location: Gold Coast

Re: small is beautiful

Post by Raya »

I find the Investigator perfect for 2+ day cruises as the time/effort spent preparing and getting away is considerable compared to the small beach craft, it's not really a daysailer unless left rigged up somewhere.

I can’t say that I agree with the above. (The first five words I agree with). I’ve owned my Investigator for twenty-five years now and have only ever used it for day sailing. Most days, I launch mid-morning and am back in the afternoon.

It only takes me, (and I do this on my own), about half an hour to stand the mast and attach the sails. Taking them down is always quicker. I spend less ramp time launching and retrieving the boat than a lot of the jetski guys.

I wouldn’t want anyone to be put off owning an Investigator by thinking that rigging it is an onerous task. It just takes a bit of practice and preparation.
Ray
Investigator #39
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